Ideas? Upgrading School Lighting Rig, help apreciated Options

[jb595]

hey looking for your guys ideas looking to upgrade with LSC or anything great. we currently have two jands roadpaks a jands esp-24(old i know but reliable) and approx 35 par 56's(for 8 FOH 12 above stage and the rest spare),8 fresnels(for FOH),12 cyc lights(for above of stage) looking to upgrade asap!!!
we currently have approx 8 grand to spend, weve been told by a company not to get movers or new board and we should spend money on profiles to point everywere, another option is to get a Maxim MP and a few profiles (we will hire in movers when needed), or get a Maxim LP and no profiles. we have 36 patch points around the room and 24 dimmer channels,

ive been looking into Maxims think there an awsum board but cant decide what to get when any help will be much apriciated!!!
thanks,
Jake

[PhantomD]

We hire in moving lights and own a maXim LP. For 24 dimmers the MP will serve you fine, allowing for moving lights control later.

I would definitely recommend a LSC board for a school - the main reason we went LSC against other options was the amount of manual preset-style control available on the faders, and the low learning curve associated with the desk. When I specified the system, I had to take into account that future students might not be as "into" lighting design as current ones are. However, the maXim still provided all the extra features I wanted right up to moving lights control in the PatPad.

But I digress. I would say that in a school situation, spend the money to reinforce the FOH with a number of profiles, and move some of the FOH fresnels to the stage bars.

[jb595]

We hire in moving lights and own a maXim LP. For 24 dimmers the MP will serve you fine, allowing for moving lights control later.

I would definitely recommend a LSC board for a school - the main reason we went LSC against other options was the amount of manual preset-style control available on the faders, and the low learning curve associated with the desk. When I specified the system, I had to take into account that future students might not be as "into" lighting design as current ones are. However, the maXim still provided all the extra features I wanted right up to moving lights control in the PatPad.

But I digress. I would say that in a school situation, spend the money to reinforce the FOH with a number of profiles, and move some of the FOH fresnels to the stage bars.

so do u reckon i should just get profiles or get a mp and as many profiles as possibe? also i am pretty into lighting but dont know that much about profiles do u kno anywhere on the web i could learn off eg the degres and stuff about them,
Thanks.
Jake

[TheDawnOfAllWars]

Hey Jake

Im assuming you're like the rest of the world and on msn. Feel free to add me at thedawnofallwars@gmail.com or email me to the same address.

I also have a few contacts in Sydney who could even help you out a little (if i'm not down there myself)

[LSC TechSupport]

Hi Jake,

The best advise I can give is to invest in INFRASTRUCTURE first!

So in a brand new install that tends to be

a) Lighting Bars
Patch Panel
c) Power - eg. 3phase outlets
d) DMX distribution

In that order. All of these things are required to do a show and cannot be easily hired in. Consoles, lights, dimmers, etc are all things can be easily hired in as required.

As your installation is already part fitted the order ay be slightly different.

So ask yourself the following questions. Do you have enough 3phase outlets in all the locations that you need them? Do you have enough 3phase outlets to allow you hire additional dimmers? If not then invest some of your $8k on these items.

Next look at your lighting bars. Are there additional locations in the theatre that you would like to be able to hang lights? If so get bars and outlets installed in these locations and link them to an extra patch panel.

Do you have enough 240v switched outlets to power moving lights? If you hire in moving lights you will need to patch these to 240v outlets, not dimmer channels. Most venues do not have enough 10A GPOs on seperate MCBs to allow more than 1 or 2 movers to be powered. So get some more GPOs installed.

Then check your DMX distribution. Do you have a DMX splitter or isolated DMX outputs (eg. ISOports) to vconnect hired equipment to? If not then a single faulty moving light could blow up all your existing dimmers and console! Do you have DMX cabling to all the locations that you may want to locate a moving light (eg. you need DMX to every lighting bar)? If not then get it installed.


All of the above will probably use most of your $8,000 budget. You won't end up with any new toys and LSc won't get the sale of a nice new maXim console. However you will get a venue that is prepared for any show that you wish to put on. You will have all the infrastructure in place to support the hire of a big console, extra dimmers, luminaires and moving lights.

[jb595]

Hi Jake,

The best advise I can give is to invest in INFRASTRUCTURE first!

So in a brand new install that tends to be

a) Lighting Bars
Patch Panel
c) Power - eg. 3phase outlets
d) DMX distribution

In that order. All of these things are required to do a show and cannot be easily hired in. Consoles, lights, dimmers, etc are all things can be easily hired in as required.

As your installation is already part fitted the order ay be slightly different.

So ask yourself the following questions. Do you have enough 3phase outlets in all the locations that you need them? Do you have enough 3phase outlets to allow you hire additional dimmers? If not then invest some of your $8k on these items.

Next look at your lighting bars. Are there additional locations in the theatre that you would like to be able to hang lights? If so get bars and outlets installed in these locations and link them to an extra patch panel.

Do you have enough 240v switched outlets to power moving lights? If you hire in moving lights you will need to patch these to 240v outlets, not dimmer channels. Most venues do not have enough 10A GPOs on seperate MCBs to allow more than 1 or 2 movers to be powered. So get some more GPOs installed.

Then check your DMX distribution. Do you have a DMX splitter or isolated DMX outputs (eg. ISOports) to vconnect hired equipment to? If not then a single faulty moving light could blow up all your existing dimmers and console! Do you have DMX cabling to all the locations that you may want to locate a moving light (eg. you need DMX to every lighting bar)? If not then get it installed.


All of the above will probably use most of your $8,000 budget. You won't end up with any new toys and LSc won't get the sale of a nice new maXim console. However you will get a venue that is prepared for any show that you wish to put on. You will have all the infrastructure in place to support the hire of a big console, extra dimmers, luminaires and moving lights.

hey yeah i have most of that the things i dont have is just dmx cabled to all places needed but it is easy to throw a dmx cable from the bars to the FOH and i am interested i the dmx would it be ok to just have a dmx cable from 2 jands roadpaks to the first dmx universe and movers to the second universe on the maxim lp?? will this blow up?

[TheDawnOfAllWars]

nice advise from richie [as always ]

In terms of unvierses, you can patch conventional dimmer channels on U1 and intelligents on U2 no worries, the maXim can handle it

[Newy]

Yes you can have dimmers on one universe and Movers on the other, the advantage of what Richi is talking about, is if you have a faulty Mover (or Dimmer for that matter) if you have a DMX Splitter / Isolator in the line between you desk and the dimmer/mover and the is a fault, then it will only be the splitter that cop's the blow, rather than your desk, I.e a $500 part compared to a $8000 part (and yes I know the spare parts are Much cheaper) The other point is, if there's a fault mid show, with out an isolator, you could end up loosing you desk mid show, hence stopping the show, if you loose an Isolator, then your only going to loose the DMX run, and the show will continue with whatevers on the other run(s).

[jb595]

jsut an update after a long while of discussing and convincing i have convinced to get a maxim LP took a while to decide but now i gotta wait till it is ordered and delivered:(

[gfhprod]

Hey There.

In regards to power, I would try and have a couple of 3ph outlets (40A) spare, because that gives you the option of bringing in more dimmer racks if you want, and you could also run a 3ph - 12x240v distribution rack of it.

[NickJones]

If you still have money leftover and do want to replace some of your fixtures, my recommendation would be Selecon Pacifics for your Profiles, I always try and have at least one in every show I do, they let you print your own gobos with your computer, the look like something from outer space, and they are easy to use. I think they are slightly more than an ETC Source4, which is the standard profile that is used the most, but the Pacific is way better in my view. The Prolite Profiles may seem cheap, but they aren't very bright. If you currently have 12 cycs, why do you want to replace them? If it's just because you want new ones, don't bother.
Where in the world are you?
Nick